And I will go into our introductions in one minute.
Yeah, I'm gonna go get started with our introductions, so welcome! We're really excited to announce.
To start our new virtual seminar series called Worlds Collide, Interdisciplinary Considerations for a Future Mew and Collider.
This is our very first seminar, um, and the idea of this seminar series is to establish and strengthen communication channels between scientists and experts from other fields.
that we think are essential to the construction and operation of a future muon collider. And this seminar series is sponsored by the Copley Foundation, as well as the U.S. Muan Collider Collaboration. So for our first seminar, I'd like to introduce Chris Clapper and Patrick Gallagher, who you see, um.
Uh, on video. Chris and Patrick are installation artists based in New York, and their art.
Uh, their work is multidisciplinary and large-scale, with a focus on science and mathematical concepts.
In 2023, they were the artists in residence at Fermilab.
And the topic of today will be on intersections of art and science, and how art can serve as a form of translation to challenging subjects.
So I'm really excited to hear all about this. I also wanted to mention that they have a new solo show about to open on February 2nd at the Gallery.
Um, uh, at the New York Design Center titled Beyond Measure, which draws inspiration from their residency at Fermilab and aims to translate the geometries of the quantum world.
So I'm going to add the link for this show in the chat in case you're all interested. I'm actually hoping that I can make it out to New York for this… for their event.
for their show. Um, I'm gonna let Chris and Patrick take it away now, so I'm gonna ask everybody to mute their… Uh, videos for now, and then we'll put… we can bring back the videos at the end when we have a Q&A, so…
I think what we'll do is save questions, hopefully, for the end, so we'll be sure to have time for.
questions. I will be closing my. Video as well.
So, take it away, Chris and Patrick, thank you so much.
All right. All right. Thank you.
We're gonna just share our screen. Set up to share this.
Oh, you're on the wrong slide. What's this? Go, you're on the wrong slide.
All right. We are here.
Hello, and welcome! Welcome to our studio!
My name is Patrick Gallagher, and this is Chris Clapper.
Thank you, Tokyo, Toyoko.
Uh, we…
Thank you for the introduction.
We'd like to start by extending our admiration and appreciation for the entire team.
that are working to bring the next-generation Luon Collider
to reality.
We're thrilled that you're all here to join us for the launch of this seminar series that is aiming to shed light
on the wider spheres of influence that groundbreaking science provides.
We're here because this is important.
It's… and grateful for this opportunity to share our story and be a part of…
A project that… of this significance.
To briefly introduce ourselves as artists, we're a collaborative team.
that's based in Brooklyn.
We work across multiple disciplines, and our practice focuses on the interconnection between human experience,
And larger systems that shape the universe around us.
Our creative process involves
a wide range of materials, and a lot of what brought us here today is that our work is directly informed
by science and technology.
For more than a decade, we've been drawing tremendous inspiration
From the fields of mathematics and science, and most recently, particle physics.
Our main goal in this pursuit is to absorb influences, and to find… looking for new tools
unique processes, and basically anything that will help further express our ideas.
This exploration had led us to Fermilab, and this was at a particularly meaningful moment for the G-2 experiment.
You may be wondering why artists were chosen to open this seminar series. Well, discovery alone is not enough.
for large-scale projects, like a muon collider, you have to travel outside the lab. It's very hard to describe an infinite universe that is invisible to the naked eye.
I'm sure we all remember going to a planetarium for the very first time, staring up in awe at the stars and the planets dancing above our heads. That feeling that we were part of something bigger.
Well, the quantum universe has that same grandeur, it's just very challenging to imagine.
And we believe art helps give that context and excitement.
It's a way to experience that same feeling of awe.
We're definitely not here to explain physics. We're here to talk about why and what we find so inspiring.
And how we believe that our art in particular, can convey that inspiration to those who will never directly engage with the data.
Lucky for us, engaging with the data kind of turned out to be our thing.
So, along the way in our creative development, our work gravitated towards mathematical concepts,
And data visualizations.
As we went deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole, we found rich hidden concepts.
Our visual style tends to gravitate towards minimalism.
And to explain that a bit is that minimalism in the sense of aesthetics,
We were really drawn to clean lines and sparse compositions. We look to show the idea that less is more,
And kind of our underlying philosophy is that we look to present
just enough information to deliver our message, and then nothing more.
But, as you will see from the work that we covered today, when it comes to things like concepts,
process and presentation. Rather than minimal, our work is actually quite maximalist.
To give a quick roadmap of our journey to particle physics, our initial focus began on visualizing raw information, and we would employ that to convey deep, abstract stories.
Art always comes down to personal interpretation.
We aim to create experiences where people could engage with the work and approach with questions. And…
This… with the idea of fueling curiosity,
So rather than simply…
Leading them by a… presenting a predetermined or static message, our aim was more to imply and subtly to suggest layers.
And then by doing that, we are inviting viewers to draw their own conclusions.
Our exploration of data initially had taken a more…
Absurdist approach.
But this data would eventually lead us quickly to math, and here we began to discover
Some of the profound and hidden stories that are hidden within mathematics, and…
We began to see what we called the poetry of numbers.
It was in some of our earlier series that we were exploring ways
Expressing more…
pure math or a theoretical concepts, or at least ones that we could understand.
The image you see here…
is a sculptural representation of four-dimensional space.
And we were really drawn to the idea
expressing higher dimensional geometries, because while it was concrete and mathematically correct, it was also impossible.
We became particularly drawn to infinities, the sheer vastness of it.
How do you explain that? How do you even comprehend that? We love this sort of push-pull idea of presenting infinity as a tangible object. Impossible, we know, but we are working on it. Getting there.
We began by casting the Fibonacci sequence in concrete.
We carved the golden ratio into white oak. Both of these sequences are well-known in visual arts. However, we were looking for a unique take on the concepts.
We didn't want the traditional conceptual format.
So we stripped it down and elected to present it in its purest mathematical forms.
Our largest Infinity series to date is a global installation centered around the infinite sequence of Pi, aiming to connect the world through art, one digit at a time.
PyProject is a current and ongoing installation, combining hand-cast physical sculptures and online data visualization.
To note, each of these sculptures is 3.14 inches by 3.14 inches, because we've got to be pure to the math.
Down to the 10th digit. The further these ideas expanded, we started to see mathematics less as an esoteric
um, abstract tool, and more of a way of what it truly is, the fundamental language of the universe.
We realize that no matter what forms of spoken language that we employ to communicate,
The pure math behind these interactions, the forces and ratios that comprise our universe, remain constant.
So, from here, the path…
Our path to physics was organic. We kept pulling this thread, and there are many reasons that infinity is so fascinating and compelling.
It's an idea of limitlessness, forever invokes deep
philosophical questions.
there's some… something beautiful about its resistance to logic, uh, its lack of closure,
And it always leaves room for more questions.
So, a few years ago, we were experimenting with ways to express these ideas,
And began work on an installation that had… that…
centered on concepts of
Scaling space and time.
We really… we're drawn to the idea of contrasting
an ever-expanding infinity to one that is ever-compressing.
And then…
development phase,
We had come across an elegant image from an early particle collision.
And it was a result of bubble chamber experiments.
We had reached out to Fermilab to see what might be available in the archives, and there we had hit
A really rich vein of material,
That even without understanding the specifics,
that he's projected so much visual information.
These were immediately captivating. It said so much with so little.
You can instantly, you just get a sense of a spatial plane
You get a feel for volume, and there are clear… there's force, there's energy.
It's motion and even rhythm.
So this was our first installation into the realm of particle physics.
And we thought the best way to express the ephemeral nature was with a performance creating a 320-square-foot marble mandala that took us 30 days to create.
And only 15 minutes to sweep away.
This piece was called Everything and Nothing.
The distilled subject of everything and nothing was meant to convey the concept of expanding and diminishing infinities.
we knew it would also be a meditation and examine… an examination of life itself.
The idea was to scale this image up and present it in a justifiable… justifiably reverent format.
So, during this exhibition, for 30 days, 14 hours a day, on our hands and knees, because we're crazy, we carefully and precisely mapped out and recreated the dynamic image of a particle collision
From a 1978 bubble chamber experiment.
This process was painstaking and detailed. We followed our outlines, as you can see here, millimeter by millimeter.
We carefully laid down the crushed marble dust across the entire field.
The process of getting to a particle collision takes an enormous amount of detailed and precise work. The process of creating a mandala also takes an enormous amount of detailed work and precision.
Using powdered marble while
being tiny particles themselves became a poetic nod that spoke to the nature of the subject.
The key element we were going after was to bring these events
of the physical universe into… of the quantum world,
into… onto a human scale.
So, we use this process to intentionally and dramatically
slow down the actual events. A mandala, or a sand painting,
is…
An ancient and sacred process. This is a practice that spans thousands of years across
All cultures, and most notably today, with Tibetan monks.
It's an intense process of labor and intent, and it's a period of deep meditation.
So here, you can see that we're in it.
We are uniquely focused on the actions of particle action, uh, interactions, and we're literally immersed in a quantum field.
Just as a side note, what's really interesting is the sacred geometry that monks use in their process is, in fact, a map of the universe. And while we were drawing out ours,
our map of the universe just happened to look a little different.
So, this was really… the entire…
month that we were doing this was a remarkable experience.
We're creating something like this
falls into the category of endurance performance.
So, during the gallery, as the exhibition was opened, we had thousands of visitors.
And for everyone who entered, we would stop and we would introduce ourselves, we would introduce the work,
We would give an explanation of the imagery, and it really was here that we started to see that out of these conversations,
that the work was acting as a type of translation.
So what we've noticed throughout our years of creating interactive installations is that when you invite the viewer into your process, or allow them to participate in some way, it instantly drops their guard, and they become open to what you're trying to express.
Um, with such a complex subject that is typically presented in very abstract ways, all of a sudden was physical.
And extremely large.
Jumped ahead there, sorry about that, folks. There we go.
Yeah, it really… it made it tangible, and it was something… it was a framework that showed…
that the subject was approachable,
And it really was here that this project on scale was beginning to grow into something
much more profound.
When you present artwork that goes beyond the initial concept, you leave the audience wanting to know more. You give them a path to curiosity. We saw this firsthand with visitors coming in to see the progress over and over again.
Wanting to know more, not… not… they weren't just interested in what we were doing, which obviously was very captivating.
But by the way that we were explaining the…
what they were looking at, they were very curious to learn more about physics itself and how this image came to be.
This installation became not just about this, but it really was an installation about the interconnectedness of all things in the universe.
The philosophical and deep questions that physics is exploring.
we were really, truly able to express the ephemeral nature of reality and give a glimpse
at the full circle of life.
Now, so there's just the process of a mandala has…
a lot of things going, and the background as well. It really is a…
the work gets laid out, and that is about the… where you build life, and its connection
to destruction,
is interesting, because it's actually not really about destruction, and it really is about transformation.
Which very much is about what… when you smash particles, the energy does not disperse, it becomes something different. It doesn't die out, it becomes something totally different.
Now, that was a point that people really gravitated to with that.
So, I would add, I think here is an important point to say, yes, while our work is about science,
It is also not about science.
Our aim is to take and interpret many elements across many different disciplines.
And follow them into larger stories that
We hope to suggest even larger stories.
our immersion into this single collision opened us up to see quantum physics not just as the study of tiny things,
But an exploration of the furthest reaches of reality
These energies are much more than just building blocks. This is, in fact, life itself.
And this understanding became an important tangent for us. It was a… it's now a reference point.
Where we… what we use to explore and merge with some of the larger philosophical ideas that we aim to present.
We're really looking to create works that express these thoughts, and attempt to convey them and convey to our audience a spark of curiosity
towards the awe of reality.
So, here we are! We made it!
Uh, to those of you who don't know this magnificent industrial artifact is a… is the original bubble chamber.
Which is where our photograph was.
the photograph that we did for the mandala was taken.
As artists in residence at Fermilab, we began to digest as much
as we possibly could. It's an exciting place. The environment is collaborative, it's really electrifying, and it feels larger than life when you're there.
For, uh, the only real…
Guideline.
was that after making their initial introductions,
Fermilab really just said, go and make your own path. Find your way
Finds what… what interests you, and take it from there. So this sheer volume of information
And all of the conceptual ideas that we had access to
It was almost overwhelming.
And with… there was just so many groundbreaking experiments.
So, early in the process, we had come across… there's
amazing research into neutrinos.
And… but this really exposed us to these ideas of the more, I guess, exotic particles.
So, for many of you, the G minus 2 experiment needs no introduction.
But for us, this was the first time that we were learning about it. And we found ourselves really swept up
in the exciting discoveries that were unfolding in front of us.
Muons grabbed our attention.
And there was something really found about the experiment's level of precision,
It's… the infinitesimal anomaly that was lurking just…
beneath the numbers, and something like that that could have far-reaching implications.
It was really fascinating. And it's here where angular momentum really grabbed our focus.
Angular momentum entered our work not as a formula, but more as a feeling. It's one of those concepts that quietly governs everything, from spinning galaxies to subatomic particles, yet it's rarely entered… encountered as something that you can see.
What drew us to it was its universality. That same underlining… underlying behavior expressing itself across radically different scales.
That sense of sameness repeating from the cosmic to the quantum felt deeply aligned with how we already understood our world. We understood the world and our work, our artwork.
Our approach was similar to how we conceived everything and nothing.
Slow it down, scale it up, make it perceptible, and see what happens.
We wanted to… we weren't interested in illustrating angular momentum literally, but in creating a system that could behave like it.
One that allowed rotation.
interference. Resonance.
And symmetry that emerged through motion.
So, given that, uh, our audience today, I think we have quite a scientific audience, we thought it was important that we could express
present at least some of the details in how these were created.
And how the system that we made mirrors actual quantum systems, and we were looking to really try to emulate what we understood, uh,
how the different eigenstates
related.
This series is generated through a custom-built visual program that acts as an instrument.
Think of it like a synthesizer, but for 3D visuals.
Uh, starting this, we have a series of concentric spheres, and this allows us to manipulate behaviors
such as their position,
the rotations, their structure,
And we're able to manipulate these forms directly
And as they're interacting, we're able to work with them as they…
as they're evolving,
The options here are really almost unlimited. We're playing with rhythm,
We're changing the rotation, we're adding waveforms to the surface.
We're able to push the amplitudes,
change wave functions…
It really allowed us to realize
the representations in detail,
And we were looking to…
visually mimic the spaces of the subatomic universe.
Here, we really began to understand what it might feel like
To be inside these dynamics, and to observe not just spin,
But the relationships between spinning forms
how they might align, how they drift, lock into rhythm, or even fall out of sync.
What developed out of this process is a series that presents the beauty of geometries.
What we were really looking to achieve in this was… the final result was to capture
The essence of what we had found to be so intriguing.
This here are the energies…
Expressing delicate patterns, motion, and movement,
We have the ability to control lines and points, and this would allow the work
to evolve into hypnotic environments.
It was really important, um, um, for us to be careful about how we push the color.
And pull the tones and the shading
about how we added the sound, how we really made it, um…
really immersive. This opened it up to… opened up the work to be sensorial. It allowed us to bring in poetry to the source material.
And express the elements of the science that really captivated us from the start.
At times, the system settles into moments of coherence at others, it becomes unstable and unpredictable.
It's fascinating to see how even small changes could radically alter the
the whole, mirroring the sensitivity and richness of physical systems governed by angular momentum.
Now, I'm not sure if you can see on your screen, um, I don't know if the detail comes through, but the…
we really…
showed the detail of what it would be as if particles were coming apart. So there's… throughout the whole piece, there's little tiny dots all around, and when you're looking at the, um…
image, the real art piece is 8 feet by 4 feet, so you really get to see all of that, um,
detail. What really emerged from this whole depiction of this data, um, was a visual language that
shaped the same principles. The work became a space where motion, symmetry, and scale could be felt intuitively.
Viewers don't need to understand the equations to send that something fundamental is at play.
In that way, angular momentum became less of a subject and more of a bridge, a way to translate an invisible structure of reality into the experience that could be seen, felt, and contemplated.
So, at this point, we began to ask ourselves a set of different questions, and…
not about how are we going to illustrate this, but why. And…
What were we really looking to explore?
I think we really found that angular momentum, just the idea of that…
the, uh, the parameter of it really expressed… it landed with us in so much of what we were doing. So, like, what were we hoping to express with this? Like, what were we trying… what could a project of angular momentum even look like? When you think about something that is
hard to explain. How do you visualize that?
So, yeah, as I… what are we trying to communicate? And I think that what we found is…
There is something in there that maybe is less concrete, and there's a… it's… it expresses an intuition
that beneath all the complexity, that there exists an organizing behavior
Something that we recognize before we can even name it.
These questions didn't lead us toward answers, but they led us to define a space of inquiry.
While our series on angular momentum exists across multiple disciplines,
Bringing it into the physical realm took the form of what we've come to call algorithmic paintings.
Through disublimation on aluminum, the image regains a material presence that reinforces its spatial complexities. The surface becomes luminous.
Depth feels implied rather than illustrated.
And the geometry begins to suggest something closer to a curved or hyperbolic space.
Yeah, and color plays a crucial role here as well.
You know, something that we think carefully about color, and because of… it's a very powerful tool,
Uh, it can…
It can project tremendous amounts of information.
And it has the power to repel and attract. And if we're using it deliberately and carefully, we can draw the viewer in
And hold attention.
In a way that doesn't overwhelm and allows the work
Space to breathe.
So we've, uh, something that can be felt…
And rather than just decode it. Something also about the material being reflective.
Um, when the viewer is looking at these two-dimensional pieces, it does become about the interconnection of all things in the universe, because the viewer then becomes part of the piece. It's impossible to be in front of it without becoming part of it. And this was an important thing for us, not just to show angular momentum,
But really to express what physics is about.
Which is everything in the universe. It is…
everything. Yeah, I think… It is the most inspiring thing when you break it down into this way, because it is the language… it is the study of…
life of everything that exists. Yeah, it really is that to come to the understanding about these
energies and the dances that are occurring
I mean, this is… you know, looking at your hands, that's your trillions of…
these dances are happening… it's happening around you when you look up at the sun. I mean, it's the entire universe, so…
That's really profound, and that really did draw us into expressing that.
And I think that also some of the images that we show there, those were…
Fermilab, are people at Fermilab. You should recognize this. Seen a few of those.
Um, yeah, that's… that process really allows the work to…
Um, to…
get the viewer involved, and to feel and to understand that…
This is… like, their environment, and this concept all comes together.
So, coming back to this idea of…
art as translation.
Um,
I think that for us, and for most people, there's the…
more, I guess, the standard planetary model of…
atoms and the understanding of sub… the atomic and…
suboctonic world.
Um, that was really the extent of our understanding and visualization.
So, when we were coming up with this talk, we had recently
come across a short clip with Richard Feynman,
And he was speaking on a nature of genius and the importance of visualization.
And the timing of finding that was perfect, because it fits so well with the topic.
Today, and he talks about how, across institutions and
Campuses around the world. He would meet all manner of brilliant people.
They knew well all of the equations and the formulas, and very versed in the technical aspects of quantum mechanics.
But he was surprised at how few visualized it.
And he went on to say that… I mean, at least for him,
then that visualization was key to approaching any subject, and even more so, quantum physics.
And that imagining himself the size of an electron helped him understand
What was happening inside the equations?
I think his… the larger point, and what we're talking about, is visualization equals understanding.
And how…
Our work ties in with this.
So, I think that inadvertently, you know, finding that,
the sentiment between us and our work
It has a lot of similarities.
We were imagining quantum mechanics as massive systems. We wanted to be, what does it look like? We were able to fly into these infinitesimal energies.
And imagine them as space.
So, visualizations such as these can express so much, and it's not just for the uninitiated and to, you know, to really look for a new audience, but
you know, potentially, and hopefully with researchers as well. I mean, we don't really know, it's like…
Maybe just looking at something a little bit different, um, hiding within these interference patterns.
There are a few answers to things. Maybe you could, A, I don't know.
maybe a different perspective gives… we have… we're giving physicality to some of these probabilities.
And maybe that person…
We'll go on to have that thought.
What we… what became really clear to us, I think, was, like, the reciprocity. On one hand, you have quantum physics deeply informing us,
The world and our artwork. On the other hand, our work offers an entry point for curiosity, one that doesn't require prior fluency in equations or formal language.
This raised a question for us. What role can art play inside a scientific field?
And that brings us to where we are now, here with all of you.
So, yeah, we…
We plan to follow this thread, and to further expand the model.
And we're exploring ways to incorporate more variables and…
Maybe even get to the point where we're adding data-driven interactions.
We want to see what else we might uncover.
right now is a very exciting point in time. The host of this event are pushing to break new boundaries to unlock hidden stories about our universe. The Muon Collider points to… toward discoveries and applications that haven't yet taken shape.
ideas that are still forming, still invisible, some still unimaginable.
And we see our role as continuing this journey alongside the scientific community, and paying very close attention.
And we also see our job will be to respond with thoughtful and creative insight, and hopefully we can build a bridge for a larger audience.
Thank you very much for taking the time to view our work, and…
to be here with us today.
It's…
Thank you so much, that was… that was very eye-opening, really great. Um, and I particularly appreciate you highlighting the intersection of art and science meeting at the point of curiosity, because I think that's where.
Science really begins by asking questions and being curious about the world, and it sounds like that's also kind of where artwork stems from, too, so we meet at this nice intersection.
Yeah.
Well, thank you, everyone. Thank you.
Thank you.
Um, there's a lot of claps and hearts. Um… So I want to open it up to questions. I'm sure there are a lot of questions out there.
Increase, use your raised hand if you'd like to ask a question.
Hi, can you hear me okay?
JP has a question. Please go ahead.
Yep. Yep.
Perfect. So, first of all, thank you for that amazing presentation, that was super-duper fascinating.
Thank you. Thank you.
Um, and it's always really cool to see, you know, the more artistic side of, you know, how you interpret physics. Um, I was really curious, um,
what software programming you're using to make those particle visualizations, um, the ones that react with angular motor, maybe you could say a little bit more about that.
Yes, um, this is a… it's a mathematical program that is, uh, it's called MaxMSP.
And it basically is… it allows… it's on a base of, I think, C++?
And… but it allows us to work with that in objects, so it's a little bit more digestible for
Distant artists. Well, just to note, though, the program itself, we created the program, so we used a platform called MaxMSP, but the program itself was something that we custom-made, so it's not something that is…
Yeah, basically we start from scratch. It starts with nothing, and then we add…
the objects, we add the control, we add the environment.
We think about what we want to show, and then start adding that into the… to create this program.
don't really start from scratch, but yeah.
I think CeCe Hannah, I'm sorry if I'm mispronouncing your name, please go ahead.
No, that's fine. Um, I just wanted to ask, uh, about the sounds that you'd incorporate in some other pieces, and where they, uh… Uh, came from.
Yeah, so we created those as well, um, this… we…
Um, through all of our projects have
we have a compositional element that runs through them.
Sound is a really great way to make the artwork much more inner, um…
make it more, um…
connected, because if you can… you can get different senses, so you've got the visual, you've got then the sound, it really brings the viewer in, so…
Uh, we've been, for the last 10 years, always incorporating music, and…
Um, really with a sensitivity to the subject, and I think for this, there's a lot of delicate sounds.
And, you know, we're really trying to
project the volume of these spaces, so, you know, there's a lot of…
Uh, ambience and… and… and…
elements with, um…
I just… we try to give the sound space.
And to be very careful with them, as well, because… And the sound is made from us, it's not something that we grab. It's custom-made specifically for the piece, depending on what we're trying to convey.
Thank you.
Their questions. Uh, there's one from Susan.
Yep. Yes.
Can you hear me? Okay, good, hi. Um, I have been lucky enough to know Chris and Patrick and watch their work develop.
For 25 years now. And they never cease to surprise me, so I'm so curious, what is.
Next, with the momentum that you're generating. or have generated, um, do you have some ideas of where this work is going to go?
Um, now? Or next?
Great. Um, yeah, well, thank you, Susan. Thank you. Thank you, Susan. Um, we do. There's…
Well, a lot of… and a lot of what our journey has been is that…
projects…
open doors, and we've… we start from where we started to how we got here. We really almost couldn't have imagined to where we are at this point.
Um, with this program and this visualization, like, we…
to maybe be able to get to that where we are creating more…
complex, maybe even… maybe getting involved with…
other physicists to do that in a data-driven way, so that the work is…
a little bit more accurate to the subject. And then we really can take that and maybe see where it goes. An idea that we've been talking about for quite some time was to
really create a space that would be immersive, so when you walk into the space, you become part of it, which would include, um, videos so that you're walking into everything, and then it would be sound, so it would be completely immersive, that the viewer would not just be looking at a two-dimensional
either video or two-dimensional piece on a wall,
But really become part of the installation, the immersion.
Yeah, exactly. I was gonna say, immersive installation would be great to see this work.
And, you know, that's just a matter of… of…
find the pieces coming together.
Question from the West Wing.
Okay, yeah. Oh, great, we're unmuted. Uh, yeah, I just wanted to know how you find the community partners in order to show your pieces. So, obviously, the mandala was hosted by some gallery.
We had pictures of when your angular momentum pieces were at the Fermilab gallery, but I'm assuming that's not the only place that these go. How do you find.
those gallery and curator partners. to show the work to larger audiences.
Well, being an artist is a hard job. That is…
We need to go for drinks for that one.
Um, but I think, you know, we've been artists for, um, 25 years,
And, you know, really going and finding the art community that speaks to the same kind of, um, disciplines that we're in, obviously, science and math and our kind of expression that we do. Um, it takes a lot of…
work to…
weed out…
where you can find those connections.
You know, there's thousands and, um, I don't even know, I couldn't even count how many galleries and curators and people there are in the art world, but you have to find the community that…
understand your work, or at least has a, um, appreciation for what we can do. Connections, the style.
Um, this… this, um, show that we have that's opening up on Monday…
Um, this has been a while coming, and, you know, we showed our work at Aurora Museum, and then at Fermilab, and just still continuing to reach out and find ways to, um… To bring it to New York. To bring it to New York.
And, um, and then, you know, this exhibition is all new work, and…
Uh, we have a lot of new pieces for that. But then it's finding…
finding spaces, like, for the mandala,
You know, it's finding a space that's…
understands that the art could be an experience, and there are plenty of gallery and, uh, gallery museum spaces.
that, you know, they're going to focus on… more on painting, or printmaking, and, you know,
doing a mandala or a installation with projections is a certain type of space, and they see…
a certain way. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm gonna jump on this, uh, raised hand while we're here. Um, I'm wondering if you can, um, just talk a little bit about the experience of the interactions. You talked a lot about how people would come up to you and talk with you while you were doing the Mandela, but I'm curious.
you know, what kind of engagement, what really stuck out to you? How did you know you were succeeding in communicating to the public who you were speaking to, um, in those experiences?
You can pretty much tell when you're speaking to… people would come up and they'd be like, oh, this is such a pretty design.
And then we would say, well, it's actually not a design, it's a photograph from a particle collision. And once you get into that kind of stuff, you can pretty much see the wall come down, like you're speaking a different language.
Right. Familiar.
Um, that they're like, oh, God, particle physics, I don't… I don't know what you're talking about. So you have to be really intuitive to what this person is…
interested in and follow their lead. So you have to go at it in a way that you can slowly give them the information,
If you start to lose them, you have to pull back and start… talk more about the artwork of it, but if you can get into that spot and show them that it's actually approachable, and it doesn't have to be something that seems like this esoteric thing, and you explain it in a way that it's… it is this
study of life, and when you break it down into that way, they're like, wait, oh, wait, I always thought science is science, and I can't understand that, but if you explain it, that it's the study of life,
And that's what's so inspiring about it. You can find your little points to go in and really connect with them. I think going back to the idea of that mandala being 20 foot by 16 foot…
the fact that we're…
in it, and we're standing in it, and the, uh, the audience is able to walk around the platform.
So, they're really seeing this larger than life,
And, you know, at that… at that point, we were really describing what the lines meant,
And what was happening, like, you know, they… where the… the…
sort of the circular shapes
go, and they would ask questions of, like, why does some of them go this way, and why some of them goes that way?
And, you know, we started to… as we answered that,
they… you really could see it. They were like, oh, wow.
That's… I get it, that makes sense. And, you know, they started to see…
Uh, the environment as… as…
magnetics as well. So that really made it a strong connection.
And then the other is the element of…
The mandala itself, and just the process. And people were, you know, really getting to describe that and understand
that ephemeral-ness of…
how that was going to be destroyed and not exist anymore.
And so we had… we had a lot to talk and engage with people on while we were doing that.
Thanks.
Yeah, go ahead.
Oh, to me. Okay, yeah, I just wanted to say thanks for the super inspiring talk with.
Thank you.
not only all of the cool visuals, but also it was a pleasure to.
Kind of hear your guys'. narration of it, well, and you're… I don't know if it was at some time stream of consciousness, but to… Just to witness the… the imagination that you bring to the art, but then also to.
See the scientific literacy at the same time. It was just, like, a really cool thing that I don't see a lot.
Thank you so much.
Um, and I also… liked that you guys, uh… oh, yeah. And I look forward to, uh, seeing your immersive exhibits.
Um, and the point about, like, you know, taking inspiration from Feynman.
Um, you know, I didn't know he was… It makes sense now, if I'm in the diagram, but he was a big proponent of visualizations, but.
uh, you know, I think that's a cool aspiration to have to.
Helped all of us to visualize what we're already working on.
I think we lost you for a second.
Yeah.
Things we already know, but to help us learn them, it became almost universally used. Oh, sorry. But, uh, you know, he created, you know, find the diagrams, which became universally used by everybody, too.
Yeah.
And it makes me wonder, you know, could we… Could we incorporate some of the.
these things and these ideas into, and kind of what I'm doing. You know, when I run MadGraph.
you know, when I do a grid pack, it produces a bunch of Feynman diagrams.
Is there a way that it could also produce.
You know, other visualizations, because if Feynman diagram's a tiny slice of.
You know, the full amplitude that we're looking at, but… You know, I just am thinking of ways to bring it even closer to people's individual work, and.
Yeah.
I'll be curious about that and looking, uh, looking at ways that… That I could explore that.
I think that's what… I think that's what's actually exciting, is that if… when we connect to, um, physicists doing the work,
If they can connect to our… our…
artwork, then we can bring a language to them that actually might go to help.
you know, more explorations, and like, we… It creates, like, a feedback on itself, where…
One of the things we love about, um, collaborating, because we were artists
individual artists for many years by, you know, doing our own thing. But when we started to collaborate,
there was, like, this, um, synergy that started happening, and I know that, you know,
you guys are all doing work that you have to collaborate, because you don't know… not one person can do
a, um, an experiment. It's an enormous amount of people together, so that kind of collaboration really starts to, um, kind of
build up on each other, and we really hope to be able to partner with more scientists along the way to see where… how we can help.
how what we can give back to this whole…
Um, this whole study, because it's so… it's so inspiring to us, so that when we get to learn new things, we get to take that and digest it, and then we can bring it back, and then there's this whole give and take that's really phenomenal.
Yeah, back to the reciprocity. Yeah. And, yeah, we would love to see how, at some…
you know, if the opportunity arises to, uh, you know, to
be able to develop this even further, that would be amazing.
Great.
Thank you, Sam.
Cool, I hope so, let's do it. Thanks.
Uh, let's go to Larry.
Sure, thanks, thanks. Um, thanks so much for the awesome talk. Super, super interesting and really beautiful stuff.
Thank you. Alright, thank you.
Um, the question is, um, so… at least one of your missions, or part of your mission, and I think for many of us in the room.
Uh, is to create a possibility for engagement for the public.
Or what is otherwise pretty esoteric, um, so that we have.
public value in scientific work as part of. you know, the human experience in the way that art is, right? And, um… And so, that's really great.
The… a lot of what you've talked about is about making things very physical and, um.
personally experienced on this kind of. one-to-one scale, um, and person-to-person scale are, again, kind of individualistically.
Uh, are communicating these things to people. But I was wondering if you have thoughts on.
reaching a lot more people. Uh, because clearly a lot of your work, or at least some of your work that you've presented here, translates really well over a screen to.
Of, you know, an audience on Zoom, or whatever it might be.
So, if you could talk a bit about, um… that trade-off, it's obviously a little less personal.
But, uh, you can take stuff online, have larger-scale media, this kind of thing, for the sake of reach.
I… I mean, I think that… well, we… certainly for… for Pi projects, we have that as, uh,
half of that project is online.
And exists there. Uh, but then…
I mean, there's… there are online resources that…
we are a part of…
But it's also… there's really something about…
that sort of intimate exchange…
That is important. Even that the installations can…
Bring larger audiences,
And, you know, looking at the work in, like, a gallery or museum, but…
There's something about having those physicalities that make it…
a different experience, and it would be a different approach to do
If it was… I mean, I… our work is great online, um, but it's also…
really, um…
It's something that we… like, we were talking when Susan asked the question about, you know, how… what do we see, where do we see this going?
It is something that we want to make bigger to
have large audiences come through and see and experience. Our very first installation that we collaborated on
um, was a self-contained thunderstorm that we created that was in a gallery that was 7,000 square feet, and the sculptures were 22 feet by 5 feet in diameter.
And they were actually musical instruments of a thunderstorm, so you were… the viewers were musicians and composers of atmospheric sounds. You pushed these big sculptures.
That, um, they were 600 pounds each, but they felt… you could feel their weight, but they, um, they moved easily. So that was a… that was thousands of people came through, and so while it could be very intimate, if you were in the, um, gallery by yourself,
It became a much bigger audience, so thousands of people were coming through to see this installation and interact with it.
And even when they were, um, there with many people, it still became an intimate moment with the sculptures, and I think that is a really good play on…
How you can take something big, but then also make it intimate and connection.
So, I think that's something that we try to really have.
With a lot of our work, like why we made our, our…
these pieces, um, metallic, so that while many people are looking at it at the same time,
It becomes all this… also this intimate connection. So I think that's a really important thing that, um…
That is part of… that makes it a nice…
a sensitivity to the artwork. Not something that's necessarily on our radar, but… I mean, at a certain point, we have talked about how incredible it would be to see this
work developed into something that was, like, a planetarium scale, so that… Anyone know, uh, access to a planetarium will do it. Yeah, that would be… that would be something. I don't know, was there some… a specific…
idea that you… you… you had in mind, or was it just your… the…
seeing where that…
No, I, uh, I play in this space a bit, too, of.
of trying to figure out how to get larger and larger audiences and those kind of things for the sake of this.
kind of large-scale scientific outreach. And, uh, and yeah, I've struggled with this in terms of, okay, how much is YouTube, you know.
using YouTube as a medium, for example. How much is that too disconnected from your audience, this kind of thing, versus, yeah, I do musical outreach, and so we've got.
like a club full of people, which is great.
Um, uh, which gives you that kind of one-to-one, you know, more intimate relationship there.
Um, uh, but yeah, trying to balance. that other mission of getting more people on our side in some way.
Um, but yeah, it's just… I just was wondering if you had thought about that. Yeah, no, that's a very interesting way to think about it, yeah.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Larry. Um, I think that brings us to the end of our questions, and it's right, um, around time, so I want to thank.
Great. Thank you.
Chris Clapper and Patrick Gallagher again. Um, thank you so much, that was a very enlightening talk, and I think we all look forward to future collaboration. I just want to mention I also dropped the link again for their new show in New York, so if you are nearby or happen to be in town there.
I encourage you to stop by. And also, I wanted to mention that we plan to continue this seminar series, so this is the first, and we have several more.
planned for this semester, and we plan to have about one talk per month, so please stay tuned on your mailing list and keep an eye out. We will announce the upcoming seminar soon.
Thank you, everybody. Thank you. Thank you, bye-bye. Bye-bye.
Thank you, everyone.